[HANASHIR:8285] RE: A woman's place

[Adrian Durlester <durleste...>]

Ah, but Rich...for me, and many other artistes, making music is much more
than something we DO. To reduce my playing the piano to mere mechanics is
not a valid valuation. My music is as much about and from who I AM as it is
a result of what I DO! Therefore, I think the analogy is perfectly valid.

I also question your definition of Kol Isha as being based on what a woman
IS. Not at all. It is based on what men might do because of what a woman is.
That's quite different. It is the men who are the weak link in this chain,
not the women. Yes, the women unfairly bear the brunt of men's weakness as a
result. But perhaps it is because the women have the superior ability to be
stronger in these matters than the men? (Though may women still buy into our
sex-crazed society, there are still far more men than women who read
pornography, etc.)

Women are not "outsiders" to Jewish living. They are an integral part of the
whole process. Black slaves were objects, plain and simple. The male society
responsible for the final redaction of the Torah and Talmud may have
attempted to portray a society in which men were always in control and women
mere chattel-but historical evidence from outside those sources suggests the
reality may have been otherwise.

You may choose to not be associated with orthodox praxis, but will you
acknowledge that it is a valid a path to Gd as the ones you do choose to
associate with?


Adrian
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adrian A. Durlester, M.T.S.  - durleste (at) home(dot)com
http://members.home.net/durleste/
Hebrew, Judaica & Music Instructor, Akiva School, Nashville TN
Music Director, Congregation Micah, Nashville, TN http://www.micahnash.org/
List-Owner for hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org; Co-Owner for L-Torah (at) 
shamash(dot)org
http://uahc.org/hanashir
Editor, Bim Bam (for Torah Aura Productions) http://www.torahaura.com/
Evening Program Chair, CAJE 26, Aug. 5-9, 2001, Colorado State University
Member-at-Large, CAJE Board of Directors

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org [mailto:owner-hanashir (at) 
> shamash(dot)org]On
> Behalf Of Richard Glauber
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 10:08 PM
> To: hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org
> Subject: [HANASHIR:8262] A woman's place
>
>
> I think Eric and Adrian have made some very strong
> arguments......   However, they both chose to use the
> same analogy, that of musical instruments on shabbat
> to make their points.  I don't think the analogy holds
> up.
>
> Because choosing to play instruments at a particular
> time is about what a person DOES.  Kol isha is a
> prohibition based on what a person IS....
>
> When black people weren't allowed to eat in the diner,
> it was because of who they WERE, not what they did. I
> think this analogy is closer to the truth of the
> present discussion.  Women are treated as the "other",
>  the outsider, the Jezebel, and it's not based on
> anything they do.  It just is.
>
> So there is a whole level of injustice, hurt feelings,
> and basic "humanness" that is IGNORED by equating it
> with prohibitions about instruments on shabbat.  The
> point is valid, but it's missing the point.
>
> Do orthodox communities have the right to worship and
> celebrate how they want?   Of course they do!  Do I
> want to be associated with that style of Jewish
> practice?  Of course not!  Are there places for
> rigteous women to sing their hearts out and share
> their gifts.  Yes!
>
> Rich Glauber


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