botched

[Judith R Cohen <judithc...>]

Stuart, I think, suggested

> > Early Western, classical music might be thought of as a
> >botched attempt to reproduce Islamic art music. 
> >

and I now forget who asked:
> Would you elaborate on this, please?

Well, I'll let him say what he meant but for me this suggests the
ongoing "Arab-influence" controversy about medieval westen European
music, and just how much it was influenced by Middle Eastern music of
the time. In Spain (well, in the various kingdoms, caliphates etc which
made up what is now Spain, and also Portugal), there is no doubt of
Middle Eastern music influence, the presence of many Jewish and Muslim
musicians, in art music (of the time), street music and everywhere in
between; the elevated slave-status women who taught music to royalty, in
the Muslim courts of Al-Andalus, etc etc. 
But even there there is a lot of animated discussion (to be polite)
about how strong the indigenous, pre-Arab conquest, musical cultures of
the peninsula were (the Visigoths must have left SOME musical mark - but
no one ever talks about Old Visigothic Traditions) and how much the
Muslims were actually influenced by those indigenous traditions, how
much give and take there was.
But there were very accomplished musicians in western Europe, and also,
those who went on the Crusades to the Middle East didn't just fly in in
a few hours, fuming if they had to stay overnight in an airport. They
spent months if not years travelling, and once there, didn't come right
back; they stayed a long time, often hooked up with local women (and
music), often brought back music, musical slaves, instruments....

Whatever the degree of mutual influence, which I can only assume was
mixed, since "Arabic" and Jewish music as such were NOT written down, I
don't think it the vast majority of cases it can be described as "a
botched attempt..." .

But after all - they weren't relying on only transcriptions - they
didn't have any! 
SKM
(the recent signature of severla mesages on this thread, "so-kick-me")
Judith

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