Re: What is Jewish Music? -- "Holocaust art"

[wiener <wiener...>]

I agree with Jeffrey that "if the work is not successful in itself as a work of 
art, then I tend to dismiss it as jumping on the bandwagon of the 
commercialization of the Holocaust."  However, I do not presume that a work by 
a 2nd generationer is successful and works by others not.

BTW, I also heard John Zorn's Kristallnacht at the Knitting Factory.  I found 
it very effective in generating a sense of physical pain -- standing only and 
extremely high volume.  I guess that the idea was to similate the physical pain 
experienced by Jews being transported in box cars.  But there was no mention of 
the intent in the notes.  And it made it hard for my to focus on the music.  
Perhaps I just should carry earplugs and wear comfortable shoes when I go to a 
contemporary music concert.

Bob Wiener

    -----Original Message-----
    From: JeffSchan (at) aol(dot)com <JeffSchan (at) aol(dot)com>
    To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
    Date: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 8:10 AM
    Subject: Re: What is Jewish Music? -- "Holocaust art"
    
    
    Alex Lubet wrote: 
    
    <<Elie Weisel has written on this subject.  As I recall, he's pretty 
    circumspect 
    about much of the 'Holocaust art' done by non-survivors.  As a non-survivor 
    who 
    addressed the unspeakable, I'm curious as to the experiences of others on 
the 
    list.>> 
    
    Bob Weiner wrote: 
    
    <<Far be it for me to equate my empathy for Holocaust survivors to being 
    a survivor, but I do believe that as Jews we see ourselves as a people 
    with a shared history and experience.  I would encourage those who are 
    not survivors themselves (or children of survivors) to attempt to 
    understand and feel the Shoah as they do.  And if music facilitates 
    that process, I would encourage them to make and listen to such music. 
    To say, you can never understand, so don't even try, is, I think, 
    counter-productive.>> 
    
    As both a composer and a child of survivors, I have mixed feelings on the 
    subject.  In principle I agree with Bob.  However, in practice, I am often 
    quite offended by the music of those who don't have a direct connection 
with 
    Holocaust.  Often, we 2nd generationers have a proprietary feeling about 
the 
    subject, so that should be factored in as well. 
    
    As an example, a number of years ago, I went to see John Zorn's 
    "Kristallnacht" at the Knitting Factory.  I sometimes find post-modernist 
    music entirely too glib in its disrespectful appropriation of traditional 
    materials, so I was prepared not to like the piece.  However, 
"Kristallnacht" 
    was emotionally forceful and musically respectful to the subject matter.  
On 
    the other hand, I have heard many other pieces in other styles which simply 
    have little more to say than the Holocaust was a very bad thing.  This I 
find 
    extremely disrespectful. 
    
    So I suppose the proof is in the pudding.  If the musician can create a 
work 
    which really has something to say on the subject, then I am happy to have 
it 
    available.  However, if the work is not successful in itself as a work of 
    art, then I tend to dismiss it as jumping on the bandwagon of the 
    commercialization of the Holocaust. 
    
    Jeffrey Schanzer