Re: Songs- help!

[Katie Marcus <kmarcus...>]

A few years ago, I came across, and unfortunately lost, a version of Chad 
Gadya in Ladino.  At a conference on the Jewish-Italian experience I got to 
listen to a recording of Chad Gaya in Judeo-Italian.  Does anyone have the 
words to these versions?  I am putting together a Passover booklet for the 
JCC and I would love to have a Ladino (and Judeo-Italian) version of Chad 
Gadya, along with the Hebrew (is there a Yiddish one?)

Please send any info you can.  Thank you so much.

-Katie Marcus
Program Coordinator, Jewish Life & Learning
Jewish Community Center of Metropolitan Detroit
(248) 661-7631
FAX: (248) 661-7711

-----Original Message-----
From:   Robert Cohen [SMTP:rlcm17 (at) hotmail(dot)com]
Sent:   Tuesday, February 27, 2001 4:00 PM
To:     World music from a Jewish slant
Subject:        Re: "Donna Donna"

I think I can shed light on a few of the points (I'm catching up) raised in 
connection with this song (which was indeed written by Aaron Zeitlin with
music by Secunda).

Teddi Schwartz was (indeed) the co-composer (with Arthur Kevess; I think I
have the spelling right) of the most well-known translation--i.e. (see
below), the one sung by Joan Baez.  I *think* it was from her--I met her
once and asked her about the song--that I learned:

*that Zeitlin (not Secunda, who just wrote the music) appropriated the
syllable "Dona"--which I believe she told me he intended should be
pronounced "Dunna," as in "gonna"--to resemble the sound (i.e., vocable) of 
Polish peasants dancing.  That matches what Reyzl was told by her own
excellent informant; and

*that he--Zeitlin--was amused at all the speculation (beginning, I gather,
some time ago) regarding the "meaning" of the vocable--esp. in re the
resemblance/allusion to a name of G*d.  It had no (such) "meaning" at
all--at least, none that Zeitlin intended.

Now:  How come the whole world--other than on knowledgeable Yiddish
recordings--sings it "Doe-na Doe-na"?  ("Doe" as in a female deer, etc.)

Well, this *is* the "folk process" at work--but as modifed, substantially,
by commercial media:  specifically, the phonograph.

When Joan Baez was shown the song--I am almost certain in a printed
version--by a Boston-area folkie, she evidently decided it should be
pronounced "Doe-na"--and that's how she said it.

Her first album, on which "Donna Donna" appeared, was the largest-selling 
LP
by a woman singer in history to that date (since exceeded by Carole King 
and
subsequently by Madonna and who knows now).  Solely, I think, as a result 
of
that record--I don't think Bikel really had much to do with it--the song
went around the world, appearing in countless songsters and collections,
sung in coffeehouses, at camps and campfires, among adults and teens, etc., 
etc., etc.  (Teddi Schwartz showed me a letter from Joan's office thanking
her for the translation and advising her that the song was the single most
requested song of Joan's [!] in Europe.)

So people (other than knowledgeable Yiddishists, mind you, but including a
lot of them too, when they're singing in adult camps and other
settings--I've heard them) sing "Doe-na" because that's the way Joan sang
it.  Purely and simply.

Hope that's illuminating and ties up some loose ends.

--Robert Cohen



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