Re: Fw: Shabbat Weddings?

[Ari Davidow <ari...>]

Moshe,

Time and place are quite essential for your statement to have any validity.
As early as the nineteenth century would wealth assimilated Jews in many
German towns and cities be able to do as the query suggested? Most readings 
would suggest yes, and that they would have been eager to cut such corners.

Were there non-Jewish musicians who knew Jewish tunes? Again, any study
of what we know of the musics (I suggest Zev Feldman's articles as starting
points) is quite emphatic on the "yes."

If you have specific cites that suggest that your questions have a non-
faith-based grounding, I will happily reconsider, but based on both the
history of the so-called "haskala" and upper class Jewish assimilation
into German culture, on the one hand, and the messier, goes back many
hundreds of years associations between musicians on the other, I do
not understand your claims.

ari

At 07:29 PM 5/8/00 +0100, you wrote:
>
>>On  8 May 2000 19:07,  Ari  Davidow <ari (at) ivritype(dot)com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Or would not have been in any way considered "common practice" (much less
>>>"conceivable practice") among the religious community. But, in cities, for
>>>instance, to what degree of the Jewish community does that speak? City
>>>Jews who considered themselves assimilated, for instance, might have been
>>>impatient at the strictures imposed by Jewish musicians following halacha,
>>>and might not have felt bound by same.
>
>
>As  we're  talking  about  the  19th  Century  and  earlier,  the  scenario
>in  both  the  shtetl  and  the  shtot  would  still  have  been  much  the
>same.  It  was  not  only  a  question  of  observing  the  Halacha,  but
>also  respect  for  it  and  for  other  people.
>
>We  could  consider  a  possible  (though  not  probable)  exception  -  a
>Reform  Judaism  community  in,  say  Germany,  in  the  second  half  of
>the  19th  Century.  Being  "reform",  they  would  already  have  changed
>their  practice  of  Jewish  law,  and  so,  there  would  have  been  no
>need  for  them  to  go  through  the  sham  of  employing  a  Shades Goy;
>they  could've  employed  other  non - observant  musicians  within  their
>own  community.
>
>Then  there's  another  question:
>
>Were  there  readily  available  non - Jewish  musicians  who  were
>sufficiently  knowledgable  of  the  type  of  music  Jews  in  that
>community  preferred/ expected  at  their  marriage  celebrations?  Again,
>probably  not.
>
>
>


Ari Davidow
ari (at) ivritype(dot)com
http://www.ivritype.com/

---------------------- jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org ---------------------+