Eating Kitniyot (Legumes) on Pesach (Formerly: seder in china]

[robert wiener <wiener...>]

I hope that Ari will allow this brief digression from things musical.

Bob


Summary: Eating Kitniyot (Legumes) on Pesach
The following summary is from the Rabbinical Assembly of Israel (Vaad
Halacha) and is written by Rabbi David Golinkin.

Question: In light of the ingathering of the exiles, would it be
possible to
eliminate the Ashkenazic custom of not eating legumes on Pesach?

Responsum:
1) In our opinion it is permitted (and perhaps even obligatory) to
eliminate
this custom.  It is in direct contradiction to an explicit decision in
the
Babylonian Talmud (Pesachim 114b) and is also in contradiction to the
opinion
of all the sages of the Mishna and Talmud except one (R. Yochanan ben
Nuri,
Pesachim 35a and parallels).  It also contradicts the theory and the
practice
of the Amoraim both in Babylonia and in Israel (Pesachim 114b and
other
sources), the Geonim (Sheiltot, Halakhot Pesukot, Halaktiot Gedolot,
etc.)
and of most of the early medieval authorities in all countries
(altogether
more than 50 Rishonim!).

2) This custom is mentioned for the first time in France and Provence
in the
beginning of the thirteenth century by R. Asher of Lunel; R. Samuel of
Falaise, and R. Peretz of Corbeil -- from there it spread to various
countries and the list of prohibited foods continued to expand.
Nevertheless, the reason for the custom was unknown and as a result
many
sages invented at least eleven different explanations for the custom.
As a
result, R. Samuel of Falaise, one of the first to mention it, referred
to it
as a "mistaken custom" and R. Yerucham called it a "foolish custom."

3) Therefore the main halachic question in this case is whether it is
permissible to do away with a mistaken or foolish custom.  Many
rabbinic
authorities have ruled that it is permitted (and perhaps even
obligatory) to
do away with this type of "foolish custom" (R. Abin in Yerushalmi
Pesachim,
Maimonides, the Rosh, the Ribash, and in many others).  Furthermore,
there
are many good reasons to do away with this "foolish custom":

1. It detracts from the joy of the holiday by limiting the number of
permitted foods.
2. It causes exorbitant price rises which result in "major financial
loss",
and, as is well known, "The Torah takes pity on the people of Israel's
money."
3. It emphasizes the insignificant (legumes) and ignores the
significant
(hametz which is forbidden from the five kinds of grain).
4. It causes people to scoff at the commandments in general and at the
prohibition of hametz in particular -- if this custom has no purpose
and is
observed, then there is no reason to observe other commandments.
5. Finally, it causes unnecessary divisions between Israel's different
ethnic
groups.

On the other hand, there is only one reason to observe this custom:
the
desire to preserve an old custom.  Obviously, this desire does not
override
all that was mentioned above.  Therefore, both Ashkenazim and
Sephardim are
permitted to eat legumes and rice on Pesach without fear of
transgressing any
prohibition.

Undoubtedly, there will be Ashkenazim who will want to stick to the
"custom
of their ancestors" even though they know that it is permitted to eat
legumes
on Pesach.  To them we recommend that they observe only the original
custom
of not eating rice and legumes but that they use oil from legumes and
all the
other foods "forbidden" over the years, such as peas, beans, garlic,
mustard,
sunflower seeds, peanuts, etc.  Thus they will be able to eat hundreds
of
products which bear the label "Kosher for Pesach for those who eat
legumes."
This will make their lives easier and will add joy and pleasure to
their
observance of Pesach.

-----Original Message-----
From: Lori Cahan-Simon <l_cahan (at) staff(dot)chuh(dot)org>
To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
Date: Friday, April 07, 2000 6:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Fwd: seder in china]


>Hi, gang,
>
>Perhaps one of you could explain simply to my friend, Sonia.  Thanks.
>
>Lorele
>
>Sonia Fuentes wrote:
>
>> Hi:
>>
>> I received the attached note from Wayne Robins, a food writer at
the NY
>> Daily News, inquiring why rice is forbidden at Passover (at least,
I was
>> told that at the seder I attended in Shanghai some years ago).  If
any
>> of you know the reason, would you get
>> back to Wayne and copy me.
>>
>> Thanks so much.  It's early--but a Happy Peysakh!
>>
>> Sonia/Sheyndl
>>
>> --
>> Sonia Pressman Fuentes
>> 11928 Frost Valley Way
>> Potomac, MD 20854-2879
>>
>> tel. 301-340-1108
>> fax: 301-610-0945
>> e-mail:  sfuentes (at) erols(dot)com
>>
>> website:
>>
http://www.erraticimpact.com/~feminism/html/sonia_pressman_fuentes.htm
>>
>>   -----------------------------------------------------------------
-------
>>
>> Subject: seder in china
>> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 09:33:27 -0400
>> From: Wayne Robins <wrobin (at) interport(dot)net>
>> To: sfuentes (at) erols(dot)com
>>
>> Dear Sonia:
>> I read with much interest your story about a seder in Shanghai. I
am a
>> food writer for the NY Daily news, and I am doing a story about
using
>> the internet to find interesting Passover dishes. But one thing
threw
>> me: Though I am Ashkenazi myself, your mention that rice is
verbotten at
>> the Passover table took me by surprise. (Actually, it was never an
>> issue). Would it be because rice grains when cooked "leaven," and
>> therefore rice would be considered chometz?
>> Just wondering.
>> Sincerely,
>> Wayne Robins
>> "Thoughts on Food" columnist NY Daily News
>>
>> wrobin (at) interport(dot)net
>> (718) 357-0918
>
>----------------------
jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org ---------------------+
>