Re: Pete Seeger, Ladino, Ashkenaz, and JC (not that one!)

[Robert Cohen <rlcm17...>]

I, for one, was not _at all_ "chastising" Judith's music and scholarship and 
superbly conscientious approach to both--which I made a point, several 
times, of praising!!  I was only trying to be a little more gently 
encouraging, or less discouraging/daunting, re musicians who don't know the 
repertoire taking a few baby steps into it--by all means w/ care and 
conscientious preparation--without feeling they have to become scholars of 
the music first.   That's all (I was saying)!   I meant no offense, to put 
it mildly, Judith--and appreciate (as I'm sure others do) your sharing your 
scholarship in all these matters; I'm learning from it and I'm not even 
_that_ involved in/with this music!--rlc


>From: "Judith Cohen" <judithrc (at) hotmail(dot)com>
>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>Subject: Pete Seeger, Ladino, Ashkenaz
>Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 05:12:28 PDT
>
>Hi,
>First, if anyone coming to Toronto for Ashkenaz wants to get together, give
>me a call. 5332666.
>
>So - did Pete Seeger - one of my all-time heroes, incidentally - record any
>"Ladino" songs? (don't think so...)
>The point about him is well taken of course, but, as I pointed out in my
>last message, anyone is, of course, free to use information or not, or to
>the degree to which they need /want it. I don't recall ever responding to
>questions and then being made to feel so chastized for providing the
>information I'm trained to work on , and have spent 2 decades working on as
>a scholar and performer. Obviously, whoever wants to sing whatever songs
>they want to sing, however they want to sing them. But why would I give 
>less
>complete and precise information than I have, just because some people may
>choose not to use it?!
>Re Pete Seeger - again, of course we're all indebted to him (would that we
>all did it as well and effectively as he has). But - in general - not
>referring to ANYONE particular at all - there seems to be a tendency to  
>not
>give Judeo-Spanish songs the serious attention which in many cases klezmer
>has received before making a lot of  kinds of changes and innovations. Many
>of the most interesting and innovative approaches to klezmer have come from
>people who either grew up with it or who spent a long time learning its
>traditional forms, before making creative changes. For the most part, 
>always
>with exceptions, Judeo-Spanish songs have not received this kind of
>treatment from performers, and that's what I'm probably responding to.
>Flory, for example, grew up in the tradition, and she and her children have
>made all sorts of changes, including new songs which have entered the
>repertoire; she told me once that she was dubious about some of her son's
>arrangements at frst, then thought "well, they're just harmonizing it in
>their own way". Yes - and I even used that as a title for a paper I wrote! 
>-
>but they grew up with it, THEN changed it. Or, other people worked with a
>tradition, learned it, understood it, understood the language, the musical
>idiom - THEN made changes. No one needs my or anyone else's permission,
>obviously, but I still wonder why Judeo-Spanish song is, by and large,
>treated so differently from other repertoires people learn - witness, for
>example, the close attention many non-Slavic origin North Americans have
>paid to learning Balkan vocal and instrumental music, and dance.
>    I'm not sure why Simon is so worried about defending Joel, whom, as he
>said, scholars, including myself, respect for the work he's been doing and
>his initiative in doing it. Did I ever say anything negative about him??
>Joel has been consistently helpful and generous about sharing his work,
>which has been itself consistent and precise. His valuable work on
>discography is not the same as scholarship on Judeo-Spanish song itself-
>which is precisely why we appreciate him and, I dare say,why he appreciates
>us!
>Anyway, I'm happy to provide information - but if one is asking questions,
>:) please specify whether you actually want answers :)
>Cheers, see some of you this weekend, perhaps - Judith
>
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