Re: "dorky" Jewish Music? (And much more)

[Robert Cohen <rlcm17...>]

I guess my problem w/ George's original posting--notwithstanding his 
entirely thoughtful and dignified reply--is that I think it almost 
necessarily closes your mind/heart/kischkes to some music to describe a 
whole genre of music (in his original, sweeping reference, including Baruch 
Chait, Shmuel Brazil, and Dvekus [!] as well as Shlomo and Debbie et al.) as 
"dorky"--and it doesn't honor the impulses and kavannah (loosely, intention) 
that may have given rise to the music.  It's also not a very well chosen 
word, if you look up its usual meanings; and it more or less suggests that 
the music in question, whatever it is, isn't "cool."  But I don't care 
whether any given niggun/melody, song, or symphony is or isn't "cool" by 
today's standards; I care, only, whether it opens my heart--in/to joyful 
exuberance or the deepest poignant yearning, or to/in something else. Sure, 
some/much of Debbie's/Debbie-influenced music is, to my ears and heart, 
shvach--it just doesn't make it (for me).  But much, or (technically) most 
Irving Berlin was shvach, too.  Even much of Mozart--G-d help me!--is sort 
of weak; or some of it, anyway.  (Well, maybe this _doesn't_ apply to 
Mozart...) But the _best_ of Debbie is sublime and enchanting; and so, 
maybe, is the best of some of her "imitators" (some of whom were composing 
before, or simultaneously w/, her--and there are other styles of 
contemporary liturgical folk-style music--e.g., various chant and a cappella 
styles--that, like/love/detest them or not, aren't really imitating either 
Debbie _or_ Shlomo).  A la Steerforth's injunction to David Copperfield, I 
think we should judge any genre by its best, not its most mediocre, 
examples; the contrary path is invariably taken, e.g., by diehard champions 
of the so-called "Golden Age" of American popular music (which, by all 
means, produced some wonderful, wonderful music)--who invariably "compare" 
some nonpareil Gershwin or Rodgers or Kern at their best to some bubble-gum 
drivel of the 50s or 60s. (Pre-ordained conclusion:  No contest!)  But they 
don't compare "Easter Parade," or worse Berlin mediocrity, w/ "Mr. 
Tambourine Man"  or "Violets of Dawn" or "Both Sides Now" or ... or... 
or.... (Or to "Whispering Bells," for that matter.)                          
                                        So, in response to Gideon, many or 
most English-language attempts at new liturgy don't make it for me, 
either...but some do.  And sometimes renditions in English of Hebrew 
originals _do_ "work" (i.e., I guess: inspire), I think; I include a few on 
the (Open the Gates!) CD.  And I also include a lovely English-language 
piyyut (hymn) in English that may be too ... something (sweetness and light? 
New Age?) for some, but I think, in its language and (Shlomo-style) 
presentation, "works" just beautifully to lift and open the heart.           
  George's instinct to avoid trashing music he can't stand is a worthy 
one--so why trash, ludicrously broadly and inelegantly to boot--an entire 
genre of music?                                               George's 
suggestion of a magazine devoted to the entire spectrum of Jewish music 
(_not_ only Yiddish music--not what he suggested!) is also a worthy 
one--and, as a long-time (book/magazine/etc.) editor and writer as well as a 
lover and historian of Jewish and (American) folk music, I'd welcome being 
involved if it can happen.  But the idea of a "mass magazine" devoted to 
Jewish culture is, to my mind, an oxymoron. I think we should aim for an 
intelligent, well-edited, appealing magazine and forget the mass.  If we 
create it, the proper audience (of musicians, music-lovers, and others) will 
come.                                   Finally, with respect to George's 
not caring for the music of Pete Seeger, this must have been a garbled 
e-mail transmission, no?  A momentary loss of consciousness?  Otherwise, 
isn't there a music court that can administer lashes for this sort of thing? 
  Heavens!  Well, To Everything There Is a Season, I suppose, including the 
expression of incomprehensible opinions.  I'm All Mixed Up--Where Have All 
the Folk Music Lovers Gone?  George had better spend more time Living in the 
Country, oblivious to Old Devil Time, where he'll find the wholesome sound 
of Pete's banjo suitably bracing, and restorative.  Well May the World Go 
until then--Robert Cohen


>From: George Robinson <GRComm (at) concentric(dot)net>
>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>Subject: Re: What is Jewish Music? (And much more)
>Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 04:19:56 -0400
>
>
>
>Robert Cohen wrote:
>
> > That my writer colleague George Robinson approaches liturgical folk 
>music
> > with the notion that it is (all? or mostly?) "dorky folk-pop Judaica" I
> > think is unfortunate--I don't think it's helpful to dismiss an entire 
>genre
> > of music that way, rather than being open to whatever you hear.  (Can 
>you
> > really be so, when you're about to listen to what you think of as 
>"another
> > dorky folk-pop Judaica" CD?)  George has always been out-front in his
> > columns about his biases/likes & dislikes, but I still think it's
> > unfortunate in a reviewer to approach new music w/ such a hard-edged 
>bias.
> > I obviously have my own bias, as a lecturer about and historian of,
> > occasional writer about, and even (this fall) producer of (a compilation 
>CD
> > of) contemporary liturgical folk music--in my view, our most distinctive
> > indigenous American-Jewish music in this generation....In any case, 
>quite
> > aside from the content, George, like a lot of writers, is under the
> > mis-impression that "begging the question" means deferring answering it.
> > Properly used, it doesn't (though "evading the issue" has now become, by
> > repeated use, an accepted informal usage); it refers to the logical 
>fallacy
> > of assuming as true the very thing you are seeking or claiming to
> > prove.
>
>Khaverim --
>
>As some of you may know, up here in Washington Heights we had a power 
>outage
>that lasted 19 hours earlier this week. As a result, I am _way_ behind in
>reading and answering my e-mail, including the copious and always 
>interesting
>products of this list.  Therefore, I will use this posting to respond not 
>only
>to Robert C, but also to Robert W and to several other items that crossed 
>my
>mind.
>
>Robert C's message, quoted above, raises two separate questions. On the 
>latter
>one, his editorial comment, I stand corrected.
>
>As to the former, as someone intimated in a subsequent response, yes, I was
>thinking solely of Debbie Friedman and her army of imitators. Certainly 
>there
>are people making good music with Jewish content in the folk genre (an 
>ill-named
>and ill-defined one; as Louis Armstrong once said, "All music is folk 
>music. I
>ain't never heard a horse sing a song.") I try to listen to any music I am 
>sent
>with an open mind and ears. In fact, it is precisely because I try to be 
>totally
>candid about my prejudices (thanks for the kind words, by the way) that I 
>think
>I am fair to the musicians whose work I review. On more than one occasion I 
>have
>said of a recording, I don't care for work in this genre, if you do, by all
>means add a star to the rating. (Let's not start on rating systems; yes, 
>they
>are insulting to the musicians/filmmakers/writers whose work is then 
>reduced to
>shorthand notations, but one does what one's editors want.) I have never 
>thought
>that the purpose of my column was to impose my tastes on my readers 
>(although,
>of course, this would represent a vast improvement in the entire human 
>race);
>What I try to do is expand my readers musical horizons by pulling their 
>coats to
>music they might not have heard otherwise, music that I think has some 
>value.
>Although I try to review anything I am sent -- providing there is some 
>Jewish
>connection -- I would rather not write about something I actively hate 
>rather
>than to add to the negative verbiage in the world. (I reserve my printed 
>disdain
>for the occasional record that is so dire in its pretensions that I just 
>can't
>stand it, especially if it comes from a major label or from someone who is
>obviously well-heeled enough to know better. If you want an example, e-mail 
>me
>offline.)
>
>That said, I must add that I think most of the Friedman influenced Jewish 
>music
>I have heard or sung, indeed, most of the camp-derived music of this ilk, 
>is
>weak tea indeed. Then, I love Pete Seeger for who he is and what he does as 
>an
>activist, but not much for his music. As the husband of an ex-cellist who 
>is a
>red-diaper baby, this makes for some . . . interesting conversations.
>
>As for Robert W, I also must concede that his point -- that it is more 
>important
>for me to review explicitly music with Jewish content in Jewish Week rather
>than, say Fred Hersch playing Thelonious Monk -- is not without merit. 
>Indeed,
>my respect for Robert is such that I was genuinely upset when I read his
>posting, precisely because I recognized that there is a degree of truth in 
>the
>charge.
>
>That said, I would say that I have never _not_ reviewed something with
>explicitly Jewish content except on the very rare occasion stated above (if 
>you
>can't say something nice . . . ). Moreover, the vast majority of my feature
>pieces are about people making music with Jewish content (rather than 
>Jewish
>people making music), or events with a specifically Jewish theme. As some 
>of you
>know from this list, I actively seek out Jewish musicians making Jewish 
>music
>regularly. Indeed, I will reiterate my request to members of this list (and
>their friends and colleagues) to send me new recordings  (George Robinson, 
>116
>Pinehurst Avenue, Apt. K-12, New York, NY 10033-1755).
>
>As I have noted before here and elsewhere, my first musical love was and is
>jazz. My editor at JWeek is also a serious jazz fan. I don't think many of 
>my
>readers follow jazz and it gives me great pleasure to expose them to jazz
>musicians who happen to be Jews. As I slowly ease into the jazz press, I 
>fully
>expect to do the same for klezmorim, etc., who happen to be making Jewish 
>music
>that has a jazz element to it. Regrettably, both jazz and Jewish music are
>ghetto-ized in a marketplace in which (as Reyzl pointed out) 25% of 
>American
>recordings are  now controlled by one corporation (albeit run by a very 
>public
>Jew). I guess I'm with Duke Ellington on this one -- there are only two
>categories that are meaningful, good music and bad.
>
>Finally, at the risk of sounding like Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland, with 
>all
>the talent here, why don't we get us a barn and open a dairy? That is to 
>say,
>there _isn't_ a Jewish music publication in the US -- to my knowledge. If 
>you
>spend as much time as I do in magazine store, then you there are some
>astonishingly narrow niche-publications out there. If there's a market for 
>a
>(new) magazine on Irish music, surely there must be a readership for a 
>magazine
>that would cover the full spectrum of Jewish music -- from klezmer to Peter
>Himmelman (I find Jewish content in a lot of his stuff -- in fact it was an
>Orthodox friend of mine who played him for me first), from Lewandowski to 
>--
>yes, even -- Debbie Friedman. I've been in the magazine and newspaper 
>publishing
>worlds for a long time and I know how difficult it is to raise capital and 
>get a
>new startup off the ground. But if people are genuinely interested, I would
>certainly be willing to get involved. (Just don't ask me for money -- I 
>don't
>have any.)
>
>Finally, on a lighter note:
>Why do we want to claim Julio Iglesias and Mariah Carey in the first place?
>Isn't embarrassing enough to have given the world Barry Manilow?
>On the accordion front -- it is amazing how much really terrific "world 
>music"
>is played on this instrument or its close relatives (not only klezmer but 
>also
>tango, Tex-Mex norteno and a lot of Eastern European musics). That said, I 
>am
>reminded of a famous line from the late great (and indisputably Jewish) 
>tenor
>sax player Al Cohn: "A gentleman is someone who knows how to play the 
>accordion,
>and doesn't." (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
>Finally, a question for Reyzl -- "Music for Jewish affairs?" What, now you 
>gotta
>have music to have an affair?  A hotel room with a bed isn't enough? Oy, 
>only
>the Jews. . . .
>
>I apologize for the extreme length of this posting and its convoluted 
>syntax.
>(What, there's a tax on _that_ now?)
>
>George Robinson
>
>
>
>


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