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CANTILLATION INTEREST GROUP DIGEST #3
- From: Sam Wittenberg <samwit...>
- Subject: CANTILLATION INTEREST GROUP DIGEST #3
- Date: Fri 19 Jan 1996 10.30 (GMT)
***************CANTILLATION/TROPE/TROP INTEREST GROUP**************
o o o o o o
K'tivah b'lo ta'amah \ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ / Script without accents
- \ / is
k'melekh b'lo atarah \ / like a king without a crown
\__________/
..... .... .. .....
. : : : : :
: : : : .; :
CANTILLATION INTEREST GROUP DIGEST #3 - there are 18 messages in this
digest:
1. Announcements
2. Transmitting music via email
3. Trop Interest Group
4. Re: CANTILLATION INTEREST GROUP DIGEST #2
5. Re: CANTILLATION INTEREST GROUP DIGEST #2
6. Cantillations
7. cantillation of multiple munach
8. Cantillation: r'vii or geresh
9. Re: CANTILLATION INTEREST GROUP DIGEST #2
10. Re: cantillation of multiple munach
11. Cantillation: r'vii or geresh
12. Re: Cantillation: r'vii or geresh
13. another item for the bibliography
14. cantillation of KATONTI
15. The Right Trop?
16. Re: cantillation of KATONTI
17. Cantillation: Ta`amei Eme"t?
18. Re: cantillation of KATONTI
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1995 21:55 -0500
From: Sam Wittenberg (samwit (at) infi(dot)net)
Subject: Announcements
<Rishon>- I received much kind mail, but Kol ha-Kavod to all who posted
and who contributed to the growth of this interest group.
<Sheni> - Some in this group are interested in a list of names and email
addresses of those of us participating (see Cantor Schwartz's post
below). Others have asked that I not release any indentifying
information. Since our group is not a formal listserv mailing list (and
therefore I'm not a sysop but an editor, at best), I believe I should
keep the trust of those who privately emailed to me and respect the
privacy of those who wish it. For the time being, any who wish to
*network* directly with others of this group should do so with the
information contained in individual posts. If, however, there is broad
interest in a *list profile*, I am happy to oblige and process the
information. Email your thoughts to me on this.
<Shlishi> - Many may not know that this interest group began just three
short months ago with a small set of messages between a few people
interested in acquiring and sharing tapes of various trop minhagim from
around the world. Since then, I now have a small tape collection of the
following: a)Spanish-Portuguese sephardic trop to haftarah for Parshat
Yitro, by Rabbi Albert Gabbai of Congregation Mikveh Israel,
Philadelphia, PA; b)Lithuanian askenazic trop and unidentified minhag
for jubilatory reading of mercha-tipcha-sofpasuk in Aseret ha-Dibrot in
Va-etchanan, by Dan Nesson, ritual director, Temple Emanuel, Newton, MA
(provided by and with exerpt example by Ralph Isberg); c)Moroccan
sephardic trop to haftarah for parshat Va-etchanan (Shabbat Nachamu), by
a Mr. Toubaly of Ashdod, Israel; d)Torah trop with various jubilatory
and melismatic flourishes as transmitted by the Gast family of Lvuv,
Galicia, by Robert Gast, Overland Park, KS. I have permission to copy
these for those interested. If any are so inclined, please post a
description of tapes/music you can share.
<R'vi'i> - Interest group membership now stands at 27.
<Acharon> - The Cantillation Interest Group Digest is a collection of
all recent posts (and related e-mail) regarding the knowledge/skills of
Torah/biblical cantillation. These digests will be posted to
alt.music.jewish (and to soc.culture.israel and soc.culture.jewish)
about every 2 to 3 weeks. Please post responses and thoughts to
alt.music.jewish. If you would like to receive this digest by e-mail,
send message to samwit (at) infi(dot)net(dot)
A healthy '96 to all
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 13:24:21 -0500
From: Art Werschulz <agw (at) cs(dot)columbia(dot)edu>
Subject: Transmitting music via email
Hi.
(1) You can always scan in sheet music and convert it to a gif.
(2) Remember, not everybody is using a Wintel machine. If you have a
Mac with a built-in microphone, you might use a utility such as
Sound Machine to create the sound. You might use SoundApp to
convert same to a standard format, such as an .au file.
TTFN.
--
Art Werschulz (8-{)} "Metaphors be with you." -- bumper sticker
GCS/M (GAT): d? -p+ c++ l u+(-) e--- m* s n+ h f g+ w+ t++ r- y?
Internet: agw (at) cs(dot)columbia(dot)edu<a
href="http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~agw/";>WWW</a>
ATTnet: Columbia U. (212) 939-7061, Fordham U. (212) 636-6325
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 15:10:00 -0400
From: schwartz (at) enter(dot)net (Cantor Neil & Katie Schwartz)
Subject: Trop Interest Group
Wow! I am even more excited to discover this group than I was to learn
of "alt.music.jewish".
I have been assiduously collecting the e-mail addresses of everyone who
shares my interests in Jewish music among my colleages in the CA and
CAJE (where my enduring legacy in having founded the Music Network 11
years ago), but it is harder to find other e-mail addresses. Would you
be willing to share the names and e-mail addresses of the other 17
members of this group? Chances are pretty good that I will be friends
or at least acquaintances with most of them: I know Josh J., Baruch C.,
Sheldon L., and Steve F. for example, but only had Sheldon's e-mail
address until I found Steve's discussion about Munach strings.
Trope has long been a real love of mine, and I am looking forward to
sharing and learning with this group!
Happy New Year,
Neil S.
Cantor Neil Schwartz
or
Katie Schwartz, B.S.I.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 14:39:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Sheldon Levin <slevin (at) mciunix(dot)mciu(dot)k12(dot)pa(dot)us>
Subject: Re: CANTILLATION INTEREST GROUP DIGEST #2
BTW as sys-op for HazzaNet, how do you feel if I cross forward these
messages or at least ask how many of the HazzaNet members (CA members
and CI students - about 65 people) would also like to receive your
digest?
Happy New Year,
Cantor Sheldon M. Levin
slevin (at) mciunix(dot)mciu(dot)k12(dot)pa(dot)us
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 20:53:57 -0800
From: bjcohon (at) ix(dot)netcom(dot)com (Barry Cohon )
Subject: Re: CANTILLATION INTEREST GROUP DIGEST #2
Very good interchange on the multiple Munach. My only caution would be
on using the trop in the back of the Hertz Humash. They are English
Ashkenazi tradition, and don't usually combine well with Lithuanian
trop which is pretty much the standard in this country.
Keep up the good work!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Mirrorib (at) aol(dot)com
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 22:44:04 -0500
Subject: Cantillations
Does anyone have any information on the proper cantillation on the word
Katonti in Bereishis 32:11 some Chumashim have a revii others have a
Azla Geresh does anyone have any rules regarding this.
Rabbi Mordecai Terebelo
Rabbi of Young Israel of Lawrenceville New Jersey and Ba'al Koreh
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: samwit (at) infi(dot)net (Sam Wittenberg)
Newsgroups: alt.music.jewish
Subject: cantillation of multiple munach
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 96 22:02:39 PST
Barry Cohon (bjcohon (at) ix(dot)netcom(dot)com) wrote to me via email on
12/30/95
with this comment:
>Very good interchange on the multiple Munach. My only caution would be
>on using the trop in the back of the Hertz Humash. They are English
>Ashkenazi tradition, and don't usually combine well with Lithuanian
>trop which is pretty much the standard in this country.
>Keep up the good work!
>
As you correctly point out, the trop in the back of the Hertz Humash are
English Ashkenazi. (I actually first heard them by a ba'al k'riah in
Jerusalem).
In my post, I meant to refer to a couple of lines of music that specify
which munach precedes specific ta'amim. For clarity, I am refering to
"Cantillation of the Torah" (N'ginot li'k'riat ha-torah) at the back of
the Hertz Humash. At the bottom of the second page of this music are
the music for two specific munach motifs. This implies one munach that
precedes zarka, pazer, t'lisha k'tana, and t'lisha g'dola, and another
munach that precedes mahpach, darga, mercha, geresh, and gershaim.
Applying Lithuanian trop to this (in F major) munach before zarka,
pazer, t'lisha k'tana, and t'lisha g'dola would be sung F-A-G. Munach
before mahpach, darga, mercha, geresh, and gershaim would be sung
A-A-G-A-C.
So my question is, does anyone else follow this practice?
Sam Wittenberg
Virginia Beach, VA
samwit (at) infi(dot)net
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: samwit (at) infi(dot)net (Sam Wittenberg)
Newsgroups: alt.music.jewish
Subject: Cantillation: r'vii or geresh
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 96 22:05:47 PST
Rabbi Mordecai Terebelo (mirrorib (at) aol(dot)com) email'd the following to me
on 12/31/95:
>Does anyone have any information on the proper cantillation on the word
>Katonti in Bereishis 32:11 some Chumashim have a revii others have a
>Azla Geresh does anyone have any rules regarding this>
>
>Rabbi Mordecai Terebelo
>Rabbi of Young Israel of Lawrenceville New Jersey and Ba'al Koreh
>
I would be interested in this myself. Of the chumashim I have, they
print the cantillation for Katonti (first word of the verse Gen 32:11)
as:
R'vii - The Jerusalem Bible (Koren).
Azla geresh - Russian-Hebrew Chumash from Mossad Harav Kook, the Soncino
Chumach (older edition ed by Rev Dr A Cohen), another chumash published
in Mea Shearim, the Ktav Tikkun, and the Hertz chumash.
This is not the only time this occurs: Parshat Va'era, Gen 21:12, the
word vatelech is cantillated variously azla geresh or r'vii as well.
The only item of substance I can add to this is a quote from an entry
"Accents in Hebrew" in the Jewish Encyclopedia: "The Accents in the
ordinary editions of the Bible are fequently unreliable. Baer's and
Ginsburg's Bible editions (where also important variants are noted) are
indispensable to one interested in Biblical accentuation." This
statement seemed rather extreme to me when I first read it. Can anyone
else comment on this?
Sam Wittenberg
Virginia Beach, Va
samwit (at) infi(dot)net
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 22:49:26 -0800
From: bjcohon (at) ix(dot)netcom(dot)com (Barry Cohon )
Subject: Re: CANTILLATION INTEREST GROUP DIGEST #2
You wrote:
>>
>As you correctly point out, the trop in the back of the Hertz Humash
>are English Ashkenazi. (I actually first heard them by a ba'al k'riah
>in Jerusalem). In my post, I meant to refer to a couple of lines of
>music that specify which munach precedes specific ta'amim. For
>clarity, I am refering to "Cantillation of the Torah" (N'ginot
>li'k'riat ha-torah) at the back of the Hertz Humash. At the bottom of
>the second page of this music are the music for two specific munach
>motifs. This implies one munach that precedes zarka, pazer, t'lisha
>k'tana, and t'lisha g'dola, and another munach that precedes mahpach,
>darga, mercha, geresh, and gershaim. Applying Lithuanian trop to this
>(in F major) munach before zarka, pazer, t'lisha k'tana, and t'lisha
>g'dola would be sung F-A-G. Munach before mahpach, darga, mercha,
>geresh, and gershaim would be sung A-A-G-A-C.
HOLD ON! WE MUST HAVE DIFFERENT EDITIONSOF HERTZ. MINE HAS THE FIRST
MUNACH EXACTLY AS YOU MENTION. BUT THE SECOND ONE GOES Bb Bb A Bb C A
G.
>So my question is, does anyone else follow this practice?
>
NOW TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION: The first Munach (F A G before zarko,
pazer, etc.) is one I use and I hear other Baaley K'riah using,
partiicularly in multiple repititions before pazer and t'lisha. Before
zarka, I like the munach that is a step higher than this: G Bb A, and
leads right down into the trop.
The 2nd Munach -- in either version described above -- is not one
I am familiar with.
What I generally do before a conjunctive like Mahpach or Dargo is a
regular Munach l'garmey: F F-G-A F G.
BARUCH COHON
bjcohon (at) ix(dot)netcom(dot)com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: schwartz (at) enter(dot)net (Cantor Neil & Katie Schwartz)
Newsgroups: alt.music.jewish
Subject: Re: cantillation of multiple munach
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 23:21:32 -0400
In article <4ca75b$b52 (at) news(dot)infi(dot)net>, samwit (at) infi(dot)net
(Sam Wittenberg)
wrote:
>In my post, I meant to refer to a couple of lines of music that
>specify which munach precedes specific ta'amim. For clarity, I am
>refering to "Cantillation of the Torah" (N'ginot li'k'riat ha-torah) at
>the back of the Hertz Humash. At the bottom of the second page of this
>music are the music for two specific munach motifs. This implies one
>munach that precedes zarka, pazer, t'lisha k'tana, and t'lisha g'dola,
>and another munach that precedes mahpach, darga, mercha, geresh, and
>gershaim. Applying Lithuanian trop to this (in F major) munach before
>zarka, pazer, t'lisha k'tana, and t'lisha g'dola would be sung F-A-G.
>Munach before mahpach, darga, mercha, geresh, and gershaim would be
>sung A-A-G-A-C.
>
>So my question is, does anyone else follow this practice?
Shalom. One melody is used for the Munach which precedes Pazer, T'lisha
G'dola, and T'lisha K'tana: for Torah chant in the key of F Major it is
"F-A-G" as you said. However, there is a special melody for the Munach
which precedes Zarka:
"B flat - A - G" according to Rosowsky's "Cantillation of the Bible"
page 203.
Cantor Neil Schwartz
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: samwit (at) infi(dot)net (Sam Wittenberg)
Newsgroups: alt.music.jewish
Subject: Cantillation: r'vii or geresh
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 96 22:05:47 PST
Rabbi Mordecai Terebelo (mirrorib (at) aol(dot)com) email'd the following to me
on
12/31/95:
>Does anyone have any information on the proper cantillation on the word
>Katonti in Bereishis 32:11 some Chumashim have a revii others have a
>Azla Geresh does anyone have any rules regarding this>
>
>Rabbi Mordecai Terebelo
>Rabbi of Young Israel of Lawrenceville New Jersey and Ba'al Koreh
>
I would be interested in this myself. Of the chumashim I have, they
print the cantillation for Katonti (first word of the verse Gen 32:11)
as:
R'vii - The Jerusalem Bible (Koren).
Azla geresh - Russian-Hebrew Chumash from Mossad Harav Kook, the Soncino
Chumach (older edition ed by Rev Dr A Cohen), another chumash published
in Mea Shearim, the Ktav Tikkun, and the Hertz chumash.
This is not the only time this occurs: Parshat Va'era, Gen 21:12, the
word vatelech is cantillated variously azla geresh or r'vii as well.
The only item of substance I can add to this is a quote from an entry
"Accents in Hebrew" in the Jewish Encyclopedia: "The Accents in the
ordinary editions of the Bible are fequently unreliable. Baer's and
Ginsburg's Bible editions (where also important variants are noted) are
indispensable to one interested in Biblical accentuation." This
statement seemed rather extreme to me when I first read it. Can anyone
else comment on this?
Sam Wittenberg
Virginia Beach, Va
samwit (at) infi(dot)net
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: schwartz (at) enter(dot)net (Cantor Neil & Katie Schwartz)
Newsgroups: alt.music.jewish
Subject: Re: Cantillation: r'vii or geresh
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 23:32:43 -0400
In article <4ca7b7$b52 (at) news(dot)infi(dot)net>, samwit (at) infi(dot)net
(Sam Wittenberg)
wrote:
>>Rabbi Mordecai Terebelo (mirrorib (at) aol(dot)com) email'd the following to
>>me
>>on 12/31/95: Does anyone have any information on the proper
>>cantillation on the word Katonti in Bereishis 32:11 some Chumashim
>>have a revii others have a Azla Geresh does anyone have any rules
>>regarding this.
>>
>I would be interested in this myself. Of the chumashim I have, they
>print the cantillation for Katonti (first word of the verse Gen 32:11)
>as:
>R'vii - The Jerusalem Bible (Koren).
>Azla geresh - Russian-Hebrew Chumash from Mossad Harav Kook, the
>Soncino Chumach (older edition ed by Rev Dr A Cohen), another chumash
>published in Mea Shearim, the Ktav Tikkun, and the Hertz chumash.
>
>This is not the only time this occurs: Parshat Va'era, Gen 21:12, the
>word vatelech is cantillated variously azla geresh or r'vii as well.
>
>The only item of substance I can add to this is a quote from an entry
>"Accents in Hebrew" in the Jewish Encyclopedia: "The Accents in the
>ordinary editions of the Bible are fequently unreliable. Baer's and
>Ginsburg's Bible editions (where also important variants are noted) are
>indispensable to one interested in Biblical accentuation." This
>statement seemed rather extreme to me when I first read it. Can anyone
>else comment on this?
Shalom. The Koren edition is usually considered to be definitive for
trope and vowels nowadays. I do have a comment on the name of the
diamond-shaped trope, however. The word "R'vi'i" is an ordinal number
meaning "fourth", like "sheni", "sh'lishi", etc. (see the Bantam-Megiddo
Hebrew/English Dictionary, pg.xxi). The proper name for this trope
according to both Rosowsky and Binder is "R'vi'a", despite what you will
find in many other sources (see Rosowsky "Cantillation of the Bible"
pg.6).
Cantor Neil Schwartz
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 22:05:37 -0500
From: Art Werschulz <agw (at) cs(dot)columbia(dot)edu>
Subject: another item for the bibliography
Hi.
You might want to add another book to the bibliography posted by Josh
Jacobson (JRJ4859 (at) aol(dot)com): "Ba'al HaKriah", by Michael Bar-Lev. It's
written in Hebrew. It contains a brief discussion of various general
principles, but the main portion of the text is a listing of every
"unusual" word that appears in the Torah, Haftarot, and the 5
Megillot. By "unusual", I mean instances of kamatz katan, shva na,
places where one might mistakenly use a milra instead of a mileil (or
vice-versa), other possible places where accenting might be unclear
(e.g., tlisha), vowel changes (e.g., vayomer/vayomar), etc., etc.
I have noticed only one disagreement with (e.g.) the weekday Torah
reading in the Siddur Rinat Yisrael. Bar-Lev treats the kamatz befor
a chataf kamatz as a kamatz katan (e.g., tzaw-haw-ra-yim), whereas
Rinat Yisrael does not (e.g., tza-haw-ryim).
It is AFAIK only available from the author, in Israel. The price
(when I obtained my copy) is US$18. (I enclosed an extra $5 to cover
the hassle of cashing a US check.) His address is Rechov Raziel 36,
Netanya.
--
Art Werschulz (8-{)} "Metaphors be with you." -- bumper sticker
GCS/M (GAT): d? -p+ c++ l u+(-) e--- m* s n+ h f g+ w+ t++ r- y?
Internet: agw (at) cs(dot)columbia(dot)edu<a
href="http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~agw/";>WWW</a>
ATTnet: Columbia U. (212) 939-7061, Fordham U. (212) 636-6325
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: JRJ4859 (at) aol(dot)com
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 16:28:26 -0500
To: jewish-music (at) israel(dot)nysernet(dot)org
Subject: cantillation of KATONTI
Genesis 32:10 (32:11 in some editions)
The word Katonti is punctuated as revi'a in some editions and as geresh
in others. Such differences are rarely found.
Koren: revi'a
Mikraot Gedolot: revi'a
BHS: geresh
Breuer: geresh
BHS (Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia) and Breuer (Rabbi Mordecai Breuer's
edition of the Tanakh published by Mossad HaRav Kuk in Jerusalem) are
both based on the Leningrad MS (1109 c.e.), the earliest complete MS of
the Masoretic Bible, thought to be a reliable copy of Ben-Asher's
punctuation. I'm not sure what the source of the Koren Bible is, but
the Mikra'ot Gedolot (Rabbinic Bibles) are generally based on the
Venetian Bible, 1524. When in doubt, I would follow BHS.
Geresh is the disjunctive accent that precedes pashta on a lower
syntactic level, while revi'a is the disjunctive accent that precedes
pashta on a higher syntactic level. So the question is, which is the
stronger disjunctive word, katonti or hachasadim? One could say that
katonti should be stronger, since the entire phrase "mikol hachasadim
umikol-ha'emet" is its modifier. In that case the ta'am would be revi'a.
But one could also argue that the division should be after the word
"hachasadim," since the dichotomy normally follows parallelistic
dividing points. "Mikol hachasadim" is parallel to "umikol-ha'emet;"
therefore the main division should be between these two members and
"katonti" should be included within the first member. In that case the
ta'am would be geresh.
A similar example can be found in Psalm 145:12. The main division is
between "gevurotav" and "uchevod hadar malchuto." The verb "lehodi'a"
is included within the first member.
So my vote would be for geresh. Obviously, though, there is considerable
ambiguity here, and a case could also be made for the revi'a.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 1996 00:00:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Josh Gluckstern-Reiss <JOGLUCKSTERN (at) JTSA(dot)EDU>
Subject: The Right Trop?
I think it's wonderful that there is a group out there interested in
discussing Trop. Most of the discussion I've seen seems to be about
"the Right way to do things" "The Authentic way to do this" "The True
Origins of the trop I use" etc. etc.
I also wonder about these things sometimes.
Although the origins and evolution of our different Trop traditions are
not cut and dry, I think most will agree that our different musical
traditions resulted from the influence and musical assimilation of our
peoples into their respective contemporary societies.
Does anyone else think that we may be missing the boat? Rather than
"clinging" to the past, in search of historicaly authentic ways, that
the way to leyn authentically is for us to create our own trope using
the influences of our society?
Josh G.R.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 21:40:19 -0400
From: schwartz (at) enter(dot)net (Cantor Neil & Katie Schwartz)
Subject: Re: cantillation of KATONTI
>Genesis 32:10 (32:11 in some editions) - The word Katonti is punctuated
>as revi'a in some editions and as geresh in others. Such differences
>are rarely found.
>Koren: revi'a
>Mikraot Gedolot: revi'a
>BHS: geresh
>Breuer: geresh
>BHS (Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia) and Breuer (Rabbi Mordecai
>Breuer's edition of the Tanakh published by Mossad HaRav Kuk in
>Jerusalem) are both based on the Leningrad MS (1109 c.e.), the earliest
>complete MS of the Masoretic Bible, thought to be a reliable copy of
>Ben-Asher's punctuation. I'm not sure what the source of the Koren
>Bible is, but the Mikra'ot Gedolot (Rabbinic Bibles) are generally
based >on the Venetian Bible, 1524. When in doubt, I would follow BHS.
>
>A similar example can be found in Psalm 145:12.
Shalom. Nice summary. Is this by any chance Josh Jacobson? You didn't
sign the posting, but it sounds like the level of scholarship that I
know Josh J. usually presents.
Two comments. As I'm sure you know even better than I, there is a
completely different system of Ta'amim used for the "EMeT" books: Job,
Proverbs, and Psalms. While proof of word relationships can be drawn
from these 3 books, the Trope "helfn gor nisht".
Secondly, I believe that the Koren edition of the TaNaCH was based on
the Aleppo Codex. All my resources are at work and I am snowed in here
at home (still), but that seems to ring a bell. If you have a copy of
the Breuer, I am jealous. I have the others you mention, but not that
one. Any idea where I can get one? How about a complete Mikra'ot
G'dolot? I only have access to Chumash volumes.
Todah Rabbah,
Cantor Neil Schwartz
Cantor Neil Schwartz
or
Katie Schwartz, B.S.I.
schwartz (at) enter(dot)net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 12:39:36 -0500
From: "Mark E. Shoulson" <shoulson (at) cs(dot)columbia(dot)edu>
Subject: Cantillation: Ta`amei Eme"t?
[ I don't know if this is the right address for Cantillation digest;
it's the only one I have. ]
Hey, all.
I recently asked this question on the Hebrew Language mailing list, and
didn't get many responses. Let me try here, it's probably the right
place.
Does anyone have any references as to how to sing the trop in Job,
Psalms,
and Proverbs ('Iyov, Mishley, Tehilim; hence the name <'eme"t> from the
initials). I'm reading M. Broyer's book _Ta`amey haMiqra'_, a wonderful
treatment of the cantillations, and now that I know something about the
names and structure of the notes in that system I'd like to have some
idea
of how to say them. I realize that there aren't necessarily unified
agreements on the subject, or knowledge of the ancient pronunciations,
I'm
just looking for *a* fairly well-accepted version of how to chant the
melodies (preferably a more-or-less European one). Tapes would probably
be
ideal, but I can probably work out sheet-music also, given some time.
Anybody out there able to help me?
~mark
o o o o o o o o o o o o
o o o o o o
o
o o o o o o o o o o o
N2KOT
Mark E. Shoulson: shoulson (at) cs(dot)columbia(dot)edu
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From: kamerman (at) i-2000(dot)com (Jerome Kamerman)
Newsgroups: alt.music.jewish
Subject: Re: cantillation of KATONTI
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 22:57:44 -0500
In article <960108162824_35491339 (at) mail02(dot)mail(dot)aol(dot)com>,
JRJ4859 (at) aol(dot)com
wrote:
>Genesis 32:10 (32:11 in some editions)
>
>The word Katonti is punctuated as revi'a in some editions and as
>geresh in others. Such differences are rarely found.
>So my vote would be for geresh. Obviously, though, there is
>considerable ambiguity here, and a case could also be made for the
>revi'a.
There is another aspect to the cantillations, which is that they serve
as adjectives. In this case, geresh, which generally implies movement
from the greater to the lesser, applied to katonti, in the context of
where Jacob was for the 20 years before this event, i.e. with the
scoundrel Lavan, would mean that Jacob had gone downhill in the ethics
department, having been influenced by Lavan, just by associating with
him, and maybe feeling some guilt, describes himself as having become
less worthy; therfor geresh.
The revi'a as an adjective, implies something small, so would mean "I
am small" i.e. unworthy, and although a simple statement, its not the
same as saying "I have become small" As the geresh is more in context,
so I also vote for geresh.
Whatever use the grammar aspect is, the adjective aspect adds color
and meaning. I think that is the main purpose of the cantillation.
End of Trop Interest Group Digest #3, 13 Dec 1996
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- CANTILLATION INTEREST GROUP DIGEST #3,
Sam Wittenberg