[HANASHIR:16246] RE: just so we're clear on the matter...

[Freedabet <Freedabet...>]

So, to put it succinctly, there are only two problems with transliterations:

1) the myriad ways the original language can be pronounced, and
2) the myriad ways any given transliteration system will be interpreted by the 
user

You have to pick one of each and hope for the best.  The best any 
transliteration system can hope to be is consistent and have an explanation 
that can be understood by the user (which will vary by geography and other 
factors).

The basic problem with 'ay' is that it can be pronounce either as in 'bay' or 
'aye' ('eye') so I prefer 'ei' for cere.

Michael 



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: eric (at) komarmusic(dot)com 
  To: hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org 
  Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 3:37 AM
  Subject: [HANASHIR:16239] RE: just so we're clear on the matter...


  Point taken, Hazzan. The "malei" thing is the key. However, I don't know if 
I'd consider ruach and eloah instances of diphthongs either for this reason: 
Diphthongs are normally when 2 vowel sounds occur within 1 syllable. The double 
vowels rUAch and elOAh are occurring in 2 syllables - 1 vowel in each. (If 
you're referring to the "w" sound that incidentally occurs in between those 
vowels, some might argue these are instances of diphthongs.) Erik is right 
though - Israeli vowel phonetics are much purer than English.

  -----Original Message-----
  From: owner-hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org [mailto:owner-hanashir (at) 
shamash(dot)org]On
  Behalf Of erik contzius
  Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 6:35 AM
  To: hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org
  Subject: [HANASHIR:16238] just so we're clear on the matter...


  although Eric Komar's posting was "mostly" correct
  regarding transliteration, the tzeirei is technically
  NOT a dipthong. Tzeirei Malei (Tzeirei followed by a
  yud) is a dipthong, but tzeirei by itself is the long
  form of segol (the eh sound). Imagine the "ei" sound
  (as in "weigh") and before getting to the "ee" sound
  at the end of the dipthong, you stop. 


  The only dipthongs that occur in
  Hebrew involve the malei form (vowel followed by a
  yud) or two apparent vowels together (vowel followed
  by patakh ganuv, like in "Eloah" or "Ruakh").


------------------------ hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org -----------------------+
Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org  
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an
online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email listproc (at) shamash(dot)org and have your message read:
unsubscribe hanashir
------------------------ hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org -----------------------=