[HANASHIR:13646] OT Re: Grammys

[Freedabet <Freedabet...>]

I was a voting member of NARAS for a number of years.  I was recruited to 
vote for a recording I had worked on (which didn't get nominated) and in 
subsequent years had an album or two nominated but didn't win.  As Judy said, 
it's a big money, big marketing popularity contest, and pretty irrelevant, 
except to someone like Norah Jones (If Bruce Springstein had won this year, 
would it have made much difference in his life?  I doubt it.)

My biggest Jewish Music recording was singing background on Barbra 
Streisand's Higher Ground.  I think it is the only 'Jewish' track on the 
album ('Avinu Malkeinu' by Barbra Streisand.  Oops, I almost forgot, excuse 
me, that's what it said on the J-card, it was really Janowski).  Beyond 
obvious examples like this one, it can be hard to define Jewish Music, but 
"you know it when you hear it."

With a target audience which is, at best, a few percent of the population, 
the prospects of growing beyond a 'cottage industry' any time soon are pretty 
small.  If we want to have awards, then we should have our own popularity 
contest, perhaps at OSRUI.  Of course, that would mean saying that one CD is 
better than the others...


Michael

-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------

> Date: Tuesday, 25-Feb-03 11:44 AM
> 
> From: Judy Ginsburgh           \ Internet:    (judy (at) 
> jewishentertainment(dot)net)
> To:   Hanashir Mail Server     \ Internet:    (hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org)
> 
> Subject:  [HANASHIR:13639] Grammys
> 
> Sender: owner-hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org
> Reply-to:       hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org
> To:     hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org
> Wow!  I have read these comments about the Grammys and I personally have so
> much to say on this topic there is not room to write it.  And Adrian is
> right, this topic is SOOOO pertinent to all of us on this list.  I admit, I
> flipped back and forth between the Grammys and some movie on Sunday night.
> In recent years, I have watched less and less of the Grammy show.  However,
> this year, it did end at a reasonable time.  Also, as a voting member of the
> Grammy Association (NARAS - National Academy of Recording Arts and
> Sciences), I choose to vote in fewer and fewer categories each year.  There
> seems to be much less real talent in the pool and it becomes a popularity
> contest (or rather a master marketing contest) just like all the other
> awards shows.  People actually hire companies to send their CDs out and they
> campaign for votes.  The same thing is done with the Academy Awards.  It is
> hard for the little guy to compete.  I vie in the Childrens category, but no
> independent has ever won against Disney, Barney, Elmo and the like.
> 
> With advanced technology, anyone can sound good in the studio.  But I was
> appalled at how awful and out of tune some of these performers sounded live.
> I agree, John Mayer's CD is terrific and he exudes talent on it.  I also
> feel Eminem has talent (it would be nice if it were not so vulger) and I
> enjoyed Nora Jones, but I don't think she is so exceptionally talented that
> she should have won 5 Grammys.  I also was not happy with how many people
> won in categories that were not totally appropriate to their genre.  But any
> voting member can enter their recording in any category they wish.  No one
> approves or disapproves.  Then the membership votes and the field is
> narrowed to 5 choices in each  category.  Those are again voted on and the
> "winners" are announced.
> 
> For a number of years, some of us have been working toward the creation of a
> more appropriate Grammy category for Jewish music.  Linda Yelnick has been a
> work horse in this effort.  Each year in the spring, a Grammy committee
> meets to consider new categories.  We have to prove ourselves to them.  And,
> unfortunately the main thing they look for is the bottom line -- how many
> professional Jewish recordings are being made, sold, and what is the revenue
> produced by these sales.  We have to show them the numbers and the money.
> We also have to do our part to have a voice in the Grammy proccess.  This is
> done by joining NARAS.  You can find information about joining at the
> following link http://grammy.aol.com/memberservices/.  I encourage anyone
> who is eligible to join to do so.  Then we have a voice, we have votes and
> we can try to make a difference.
> 
> While we are on the subject of upgrading, learning more about our craft, and
> having our say -- I will let you know that the entire Music Network
> preconference at CAJE (Columbus, Ohio this summer) is going to be devoted to
> "The BUSINESS of Performance".  There will be three panel discussions on
> Friday, August 15 which will address such topics as copyright ethics, making
> a recording, home vs. studio recording, marketing your act, getting your
> music published, transcriptions, touring, booking, resources and much more.
> We have assembled a panel of seasoned performers who have knowledge of these
> topics - most of whom are an active part of this Hanashir listserv.  We also
> hope to repeat these sessions in a 3 hour panel sometime during the actual
> conference (Aug.18-20).  On Sunday afternoon, August 17, we will hold our
> annual Jewish Performers Roundtable where we all gather to network, share,
> kvetch, ask questions, etc....  So, I would encourage you to attend CAJE
> 28 - info at their web site www.caje.org.  You will gain lots of valuable
> information about how to go to the next level with your music career.
> 
> Hope to see many of you at Hava Nashira and CAJE as we all continue on this
> journey of constantly learning and sharing Jewish music creation and
> performance.
> 
> Judy :)
> 
> 
> Judy Caplan Ginsburgh, Professional Singer
> 1999 Louisiana Professional Artist of the Year!
> judy (at) jewishentertainment(dot)net     -    judy (at) judymusic(dot)com
>  www.judymusic.com
> Hot off the Press!  My Jewish World - a new early childhood music curriculum
> http://uahc.org/cgi-bin/pressdisp.pl?list=301786
> Director: Jewish Entertainment Resources - We Help You Find Jewish Talent!
> www.jewishentertainment.net
> Conference Chair, CAJE 23: www.caje.org
> Member - Children's Music Network; www.cmnonline.org
> Member - Women Cantor's Network; www.womencantors.net
> "I've learned that you shouldn't go through life with a catcher's mitt on
> both hands. You need to be able to throw something back."
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adrian Durlester" <adrian (at) ehavanashira(dot)org>
> To: <hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 12:29 AM
> Subject: [HANASHIR:13629] Re: What About Musical Fairness?
> 
> 
> > Michael:
> >
> > As List Owner, I must humbly disagree with your assessment of this
> > discussion being totally off-topic. It is somewhat tangential, but quite
> in
> > keeping with the overarching musical themes of the list. What happens in
> the
> > secular music world clearly has an impact on what happens in the Jewish
> > music world.
> >
> > Adrian A. Durlester, MTS
> > E-mail: adrian (at) durlester(dot)com  URL:www.durlester.com
> > Director of Education, Beth El Hebrew Congregation, Alexandria, VA
> > education(dot)driector (at) bethelhebrew(dot)org
> > Past Conf Chair, CAJE 27, August 4-8, 2002, Trinity University, San
> Antonio,
> > TX
> > List Owner, hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org; Jewish Songleaders/Performers 
> > List
> > Co-Owner, l-torah (at) shamash(dot)org; Liberal Torah Discussion List
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org [mailto:owner-hanashir (at) 
> > shamash(dot)org] On
> > Behalf Of Freedabet (at) aol(dot)com
> > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 11:29 PM
> > To: jbielan (at) pacbell(dot)net; hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org
> > Subject: [HANASHIR:13627] Re: What About Musical Fairness?
> >
> >
> > All very interesting, but way off topic.  One list I know puts OT in the
> > subject of items of interest but off-topic...
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > -------- REPLY, Original message follows --------
> >
> > > Date: Monday, 24-Feb-03 01:41 PM
> > >
> > > From: Bielan, Jack             \ Internet:    (jbielan (at) 
> > > pacbell(dot)net)
> > > To:   Hanashir Mail Server     \ Internet:    (hanashir (at) 
> > > shamash(dot)org)
> > >
> > > Subject:  [HANASHIR:13614] Re: What About Musical Fairness?
> > >
> > > Sender: owner-hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org
> > > Reply-to:       hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org
> > > To:     hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org
> > > Hi,
> > > Gotta go, but couldn't pass up the opportunity to respond to your
> > > response.
> > >
> > > 1) This year's Grammys DO reflect a lot of what's selling.  Look at
> > > Billboard's charts. Despite the fact that Bruce didn't win for Album
> > > of the Year (only Rock album of the year - <I'd certainly settle for
> > > that... but that's another topic..>), and despite the fact that the
> > > Grammys have often in the past not reflected much of what was going on
> in
> > music - do the
> > > numbers.  Count how many millions these folks are selling.   I agree:
> the
> > > Grammys have often rendered themselves irrelevant because of their
> > > glaring ommisions of gifted artists.  My quarrel is not with the
> > > Grammy Show itself (which looks more and more like "Star Search") -
> > > but bemoans the overall industry as a whole.  As stated - especially
> > > the absence of Jewish music.
> > >
> > > 2) The fact that Marvin, Brian Wilson or any of the others you listed
> > > never won a Grammy has nothing to do with my point.  All you've gotta
> > > do is turn on MTV and do a reality check on the state of contemporary
> > > music.  And I beg to differ... folks with whom I used to work at
> > > Motown ARE sickened by much of what they hear.
> > >
> > > In addition, they are constantly getting ripped-off, their recordings
> > > sampled without any remuneration whatsoever, their income stolen by
> > > internet downloading (a whole other topic which I wouldn't want to get
> > > into).
> > >
> > > Gotta get to work - let anyone else take the torch now.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <sholom (at) aishdas(dot)org>
> > > To: <hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org>
> > > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 10:17 AM
> > > Subject: [HANASHIR:13613] Re: What About Musical Fairness?
> > >
> > >
> > > > > As I watched the Grammy Awards last night, I often felt like
> > > > > someone should be saying Kaddish for the music industry.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've always prided myself on trying to keep aware of contemporary
> > > > > musical trends
> > > >
> > > > > As I watched the Grammy Awards last night, I often felt like
> > > > > someone should be saying Kaddish for the music industry.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've always prided myself on trying to keep aware of contemporary
> > > > > musical trends
> > > >
> > > > But why do you think that the Grammy's have much to do with
> > > > contemporary musical trends?
> > > >
> > > > >the original
> > > > >Temptations and Marvin Gaye must be rolling over in their graves.
> > > >
> > > > Naah, they never won a Grammy.
> > > >
> > > > Look who else has never won a Grammy for an album or a song:
> > > >
> > > > The Grateful Dead, The Beach Boys, The Doors, Led Zeppelin, Neil
> > > > Young, The Who, Buddy Holly, Creedence Cleerwater Revival, Bob
> > > > Marley, Jimi Hendrix, The Talking Heads, Sly and The Family Stone,
> > > > Temptations, Diana Ross, Chuck Berry, Jackson Browne, Byrds, Sam
> > > > Cooke, Elvis Costello, Four Tops, Supremes...
> > > >
> > > > (Some of the above won for lifetime achievements -- well after their
> > > > careers had taken a nosedive).
> > > >
> > > > Pink Floyd didn't win until 1994 when they took home one for Best
> > > > Rock Instrumental. The song was "Marooned." Forget about The Wall.
> > > > Forget about Dark Side of The Moon (on the charts for a record 700+
> > > > weeks!). Forget about Wish You Were Here, Animals, Meddle . . .
> > > > They won for "Marooned!!" What album was that off of again?
> > > >
> > > > The only Grammys Elvis Presley ever won were for albums in the
> > > > religious categories!
> > > >
> > > > The Allman Brothers Band, who were a pioneering Jam Band since 1969,
> > > > finally took home one Grammy in 1995 for "Jessica" - a song
> > > > originally recorded for the album Brothers And Sisters...in 1973!!
> > > >
> > > > The Rolling Stones didn't win until 1994!!! The honor? Best Rock
> > > > Album for Voodoo Lounge!  Clearly their best and a groundbreaking
> > > > album (not!). (OK, they did get a Lifetime Acheivement award in 1986
> > > > -- but nothing previous to that.  Tell me how _that_ can happen?)
> > > > Steely Dan first won in 2001!
> > > >
> > > > Bob Dylan -- who singlehandedly revolutionized pop music in the
> > > > 1960's and 1970's with such landmark albums as Highway 61 Revisited,
> > > > Blonde on Blonde, Blood on the Tracks -- won a Lifetime Achievement
> > > > in the 1990's -- but for nothing before that.
> > > >
> > > > I have to conclude that the Grammy's have only little to do with the
> > > > real music scene.
> > > >
> > > > -- Sholom
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > -------- REPLY, End of original message --------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 

-------- REPLY, End of original message --------

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