[HANASHIR:10944] RE: best site for Hebrew songs!

[Adrian Durlester <adrian...>]

Shirona:

Your comparison is apples and oranges. A web site is available to the
public. That's a very different thing than in-house fair use for educational
or religious purposes.

And do the overall benefits outweigh the legalities? I'm not so sure. If
everyone just copies freely, makes all their own shironim, then a whole lot
of other people are affected: publishers (and their employees), composers,
clearing houses (and their employees.)

I share your passion for spreading, sharing and using Jewish music to
further the teaching of Judaism, Jewish heritage, Torah, values and even
just for the sake of art. I often freely give of my musical gifts. It's
comfortable and easy to rely on the old canard of "doesn't just sharing
music with the children matter more?" Hits us all right in the gut. But the
equation is not as simple as you suggest.

As has been stated on this list time and time again, MOST composers of
Jewish music might freely give permission to use their lyrics in a shiron
for use in a synagogue or religious school. The might even give permission
to have them posted to a web site, and even to have sound files posted. So
once again, for me, the issue boils down to laziness. If all of us would
take the extra time to simply offer the courtesy of trying to obtain
permission, this would be a none issue.

But as long as the attitude you endorse prevails, most people won't bother
with this appropriate courtesy.

I'm not saying don't make shironim, and don't post lyrics to web sites. I'm
saying "ASK FIRST." I think that is a reasonable and fair position.

And I still think the only way to make this happen is for all of us to band
together and create a Jewish music clearing house, just like the Church
Music Publishers Association has done. I reiterate my call for discussion of
creating such an entity.

B'vracha

Adrian

Adrian A. Durlester, M.T.S.  - adrian (at) durlester(dot)com
http://www.durlester.com/
Director of Education, Beth El Hebrew Congregation, Alexandria, VA
Conference Chair, CAJE 27, Aug. 4-8, 2002, Trinity Univ., San Antonio, TX
List-Owner for hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org; Co-Owner for L-Torah (at) 
shamash(dot)org
http://uahc.org/hanashir



> ----- Original Message -----
> From: owner-hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org [SMTP:owner-hanashir (at) 
> shamash(dot)org] on
> behalf of Shirona [SMTP:shirona (at) bellatlantic(dot)net]
> Reply To:     hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org [SMTP:hanashir (at) 
> shamash(dot)org]
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002, 9:48:27
> To:   hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org
> Subject:      [HANASHIR:10937] RE: best site for Hebrew songs!
>
> Adrian,
>
> Perhaps there is a violation of copyright law. If you want to look at this
> entire endeavor through a 'legal' lens.  There are other ways of looking
at
> things - whereby you might ask yourself if the overall benefits outweigh
> the
> detriments. For example - -
>
> Several years ago I was the music teacher at another synagogue (not where
I
> teach now, which is Westchester Reform Temple), and I wanted to put
> together
> a Shiron, a songbook for the Hebrew school.  Simply to copy all the lyrics
> of the songs we teach during the year and put them in a binder.  Guess
> what - the Rabbi "vetoed" that project because of copyright violation.
> Legally he had all the "right" reasons why NOT to do this.
>
> So instead of having a nice Shiron that the children can hold and treat
> respectfully - we were reduced to loose photocopies that ended up crumpled
> up, if not as paper airplanes...So in the end it all came down to
> *binding*!!  It was OK to make loose copies of a song, but NOT OK to bind
> them together into a shiron, even if it was strictly for educational
> purposes, and not for sale or profit.
>
> Isn't this absurd??  And who lost?  The kids, of course.  Do you think the
> composers of the songs we ended up NOT teaching because distributing loose
> sheets takes up half the time allocated to music "won" a legal, or
> financial
> victory?  The rabbi was convinced he was doing "the right thing" - but I
> believe that it was pure "lose-lose" for everyone. Mostly the composers...
>
> My point is that before we get too caught up in a legal "plonter" (a knot,
> in Yiddish) - we should survey the "big picture" and determine if anyone
> really "looses" anything, thereby justifying  aggressive law enforcement.
> In
> other words - do we want to "win the battle but lose the war", when it
> comes
> to educating children and spreading Jewish culture throughout the world.
>
> Shirona
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> Singer, Songwriter and Teacher of Jewish Music
>  Visit my website at    www.shirona.com
> Listen to my music at www.mp3.com/shirona
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adrian Durlester" <adrian (at) durlester(dot)com>
> To: "Hanashir" <hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org>; "'Shirona'"
> <shirona (at) bellatlantic(dot)net>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 11:18 PM
> Subject: [HANASHIR:10936] RE: best site for Hebrew songs!
>
>
> > Except that, dear Shirona, this site is clearly in violation of
> > copyright laws, as many, many of the songs listed lack attributions, and
> > there's no indication that the many sound files are posted with
> > permission. Some members of this list besides yourself have lyrics and
> > sound files posted on that site, I suggest they check that out and
> > correspond with the site's creator.
> >
> > Adrian
> > Adrian A. Durlester, MTS
> > E-mail: adrian (at) durlester(dot)com  URL:www.durlester.com
> > Director of Education, Beth El Hebrew Congregation, Alexandria, VA
> > Chair, CAJE 27, August 4-8, 2002, Trinity University, San Antonio, TX
> > List Owner, hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org; Jewish Songleaders/Performers 
> > List
> > Co-Owner, l-torah (at) shamash(dot)org; Liberal Torah Discussion List
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: owner-hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org [SMTP:owner-hanashir (at) 
> > > shamash(dot)org] on
> > > behalf of Shirona [SMTP:shirona (at) bellatlantic(dot)net]
> > > Reply To: hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org [SMTP:hanashir (at) 
> > > shamash(dot)org]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002, 13:11:52
> > > To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org; hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org
> > > Subject: [HANASHIR:10930] best site for Hebrew songs!
> > >
> > > In case you missed this one - check out this site!!!
> > >
> > > www.hebrewsongs.com
> > >
> > > great resource, great opportunities.
> > >
> > > Happy Adar,
> > > Shirona
> > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > > Singer, Songwriter and Teacher of Jewish Music
> > >  Visit my website at    www.shirona.com
> > > Listen to my music at
> > > www.mp3.com/shirona
> > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > > ----- End Of Original Message -----
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ----- End Of Original Message -----

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