[HANASHIR:9779] Re: High Holiday Choir complaint

[Freedabet <Freedabet...>]

First, of course, individual notes do not have 'churchiness' or 'Jewishness,' 
but, once you put them together in various ways, they can over time become so 
strongly associated with a religion or a text that you cannot overcome that 
connection.  One example was 'Silent Night.'  If you hear 101 Strings playing 
this at the mall during December, it screams 'Silent Night' and 'Christmas' 
without the words.  If they played it in March, or if it had Hebrew or other 
words, THAT would sound strange.

Kol Nidre is another great example.  I don't think it is the association with 
the Kol Nidre text that makes so many Jews and others who are unfamiliar with 
this Aramaic text think 'Jewish' or 'High Holy Days.'  It is the beauty of 
the 'nusach' - the combination of mode and melodic phrases - combined with 
the position of this text (it's not even a 'prayer' in the usual sense of the 
word) at the beginning of Yom Kippur.  

Of course, the Reform movement in Germany was in many ways imitating the 
churches there -- Sunday services, organ, and mixed choir.  Perhaps 100 years 
is just too short a time to consider this a legitimate part of our tradition 
(but just try to do other than a variation of Sulzer's "Sh'ma").

With an organ, a registration (the selection and combining of sets of pipes, 
each of which has a distinctive 'voice') can sound 'churchy' even if used to 
play 'Hava Nagila'.  If a 'Church Organist' plays in a synagogue without some 
guidance, this can easily happen unintentionally.  If the Cantor doesn't 
recognize this, or can't communicate it to the Organist in a way he can 
understand, then the 'churchiness' issue has some legitimacy and can fester.

Since choirs (and organs) are few and far between in synagogues these days, 
many congregants may associate them with church out of ignorance.  I would 
expect this is especially likely in places where 'church choir' is a big 
tradition.  Perhaps choosing something that is as 'unchurchlike' as possible 
will help, such as Cantor and Choir a capella, or only male voices 'oo'ing 
behind the Cantor.  If they STILL think this is churchy, give them The Jazz 
Singer (either or both) for Chanukah.

Susan - can I suggest that you also look into the music of Aminadav Aloni for 
your choir?  His music is published by TCM and the Aminadav Aloni Music 
Foundation in Southern California.


Shavua tov,

Michael


-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------

> Date: Saturday, 01-Sep-01 01:42 PM
> 
> From: WEILHEIMER WINSTON       \ Internet:    (nusach (at) hotmail(dot)com)
> To:   Hanashir Mail Server     \ Internet:    (hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org)
> 
> Subject:  [HANASHIR:9700] Re: High Holiday Choir complaint
> 
> Sender: owner-hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org
> Reply-to:       hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org
> To:     hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org (listhanashir)
> first, is this person in the choir?  i would remind him that much of our
> traditon (especially in the reform movement) comes from these composers as 
well
> as lewandowski and sulzer.  many of the melodies he considers churchy are 
only
> thus in the minds of the listener.  Perhaps (not really) the church took the
> music from us!  Be that as it may, the churchy sound is perhaps because of 
the
> harmonics of the piece, plus if you use an organ, many Jewish "ears" find 
that
> chruchy.   
> 
> Music in and of itself is not churchy.....its the words that are put to it 
or
> associated with it.  Therefore the "music" of silent night is not churchy, 
but
> the words are christian and thus have been associated with the music.  The
> music of Kol Niedre is not inherantlyh Jewish, but the words linked to it 
are
> and thus the music is.   
> 
> Just as my ears were unaccustomed to hearing female cantors and it was 
strange
> to me, after a while it became a beautiful sound, so the music of your choir
> will also become such for him, if he lets it.  Listen to the words of the
> prayers, not the music.  It IS JEWISH because the prayers are.  If Jewish
> prayers were sung to silent night....now that would be churchy!
> 
> btw...if the choir records...i would love to have the recordings for the 
nusach
> internet radio netork!
> 
> winston weilheimer
> owner/host
> NUSACH INTERNET RADIO NETWORK
> NUSACH....THE ORIGINAL JEWISH SOUL MUSIC!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Susan Schanerman
> Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 11:59 AM
> To: Hanashir (E-mail)
> Cc: Guild of Temple Musicians (E-mail)
> Subject: [HANASHIR:9698] High Holiday Choir complaint
> 
> 
> We have a persistant congregant (who happens to have a lot of influence) who
> believes that our high holiday choir is "churchy".  What has happened over 
the
> last three years is that our former director (elementary school music 
teacher
> and friend of this guy) quit and our new director (non-Jewish PHD candidate 
in
> vocal music) has transformed our choir from a primarily 2-part group to a
> proficient 4-part group.  The pieces that this man seems to be objecting to 
are
> pieces (that I select) by Steinberg, Isaacson, Richards, Osborne.  (Almost
> everything we sing is in Hebrew).
> 
> We are a Reform congregation.  How do I address this man's concerns?  My 
guess
> is that they have more to do with the change in personnel than with the 
change
> in music - but I don't want to go down that road.  I want him to feel that 
we
> are listening to his opinions and considering them seriously (which we are.)
> 
> The choir has lots of positive feedback from other congregants every year.
> Maybe it's those who were raised in conservative synagogues who don't like
> choirs?
> 
> Todah,
> Susan
> 
> Susan Schanerman
> Director of Education, Cantorial Soloist
> susan (at) emanueloftempe(dot)org
> 
> 
> 
> br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a
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> 
> <HTML><BODY STYLE="font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>first, is this 
person
> in the choir?  i would remind him that much of our traditon (especially in
> the reform movement) comes from these composers as well as lewandowski and
> sulzer.  many of the melodies he considers churchy are only thus in the
> minds of the listener.  Perhaps (not really) the church took the music
> from us!  Be that as it may, the churchy sound is perhaps because of the
> harmonics of the piece, plus if you use an organ, many Jewish "ears" find 
that
> chruchy.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Music in and of itself is not
> churchy.....its the words that are put to it or associated with it. 
> Therefore the "music" of silent night is not churchy, but the words are
> christian and thus have been associated with the music.  The music of Kol
> Niedre is not inherantlyh Jewish, but the words linked to it are and thus 
the
> music is.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just as my ears were unaccustomed
> to hearing female cantors and it was strange to me, after a while it became 
a
> beautiful sound, so the music of your choir will also become such for him, 
if
> he lets it.  Listen to the words of the prayers, not the music.  It
> IS JEWISH because the prayers are.  If Jewish prayers were sung to silent
> night....now that would be churchy!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>btw...if the
> choir records...i would love to have the recordings for the nusach internet
> radio netork!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>winston weilheimer</DIV>
> <DIV>owner/host</DIV> <DIV>NUSACH INTERNET RADIO NETWORK</DIV>
> <DIV>NUSACH....THE ORIGINAL JEWISH SOUL MUSIC!</DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV>
> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px;
> MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV
> style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV
> style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; FONT-COLOR:
> black"><B>From:</B> Susan Schanerman</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt
> Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, September 01, 2001 11:59 AM</DIV> <DIV
> style="FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> Hanashir (E-mail)</DIV> <DIV
> style="FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Cc:</B> Guild of Temple Musicians
> (E-mail)</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt
> Arial"><B>Subject:</B> [HANASHIR:9698] High Holiday Choir complaint</DIV>
> <DIV><BR></DIV>We have a persistant congregant (who happens to have a lot of
> influence) who<BR>believes that our high holiday choir is "churchy".  What
> has happened over the<BR>last three years is that our former director
> (elementary school music teacher<BR>and friend of this guy) quit and our new
> director (non-Jewish PHD candidate in<BR>vocal music) has transformed our 
choir
> from a primarily 2-part group to a<BR>proficient 4-part group.  The pieces
> that this man seems to be objecting to are<BR>pieces (that I select) by
> Steinberg, Isaacson, Richards, Osborne.  (Almost<BR>everything we sing is
> in Hebrew).<BR><BR>We are a Reform congregation.  How do I address this
> man's concerns?  My guess<BR>is that they have more to do with the change
> in personnel than with the change<BR>in music - but I don't want to go down
> that road.  I want him to feel that we<BR>are listening to his opinions
> and considering them seriously (which we are.)<BR><BR>The choir has lots of
> positive feedback from other congregants every year.<BR>Maybe it's those who
> were raised in conservative synagogues who don't
> like<BR>choirs?<BR><BR>Todah,<BR>Susan<BR><BR>Susan Schanerman<BR>Director 
of
> Education, Cantorial
> Soloist<BR>susan (at) 
> emanueloftempe(dot)org<BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------
> hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org -----------------------+<BR>